Wandering Jehovas

My darling wife took pity on some wandering Jehovas the other day and decided to talk to them. She explained that I was a Christian and they asked a few questions about what I believe. They asked if they could come back and talk to me, so she kindly invited them back this Saturday! EEK! Now I have to do some research. They say they wont try to convert me….but I will certainly try to convert them :) They gave my wife a copy of their booklet for us to read, and I have been pleasantly surprised at its content. I haven’t read all of it, but most of what it says seems to be on the money. Their heirachy and style of government however, I believe is unscriptural.

One thing I did come across is their section of "What happened when you die" is the passage Ecc 9:5-10.

5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing
they have no further reward
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

7 Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for it is now that God favors what you do. 8 Always be clothed in white, and always anoint your head with oil. 9 Enjoy life with your wife, whom you love, all the days of this meaningless life that God has given you under the sun— all your meaningless days. For this is your lot in life and in your toilsome labor under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

Now, this seems to say what they says it says....BUT! I think think of the rich dude and the poor guy. They were in heaven and hell (or hades?), plus, the apostles saw elija and moses with Jesus on the hill (where he went up in the cloud?)...they are dead, but their souls/spirits are there..arent they?
So how does the above passage relate?

Basically, the Jehovahs are saying that when you die, you are dead. Dead. Full Stop (or “period” for you Americans). Dead. No going to the afterlife as a soul, or ghost or spirit. Just dead. And Ecc 9:5-10 seems to say what they say they think its saying. But, if this is the case, then how come we are told about a number of people that are in the spirit world. For example...

Luke 16:15-30 (New International Version)

The Rich Man and Lazarus

19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell ^[a] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

Footnotes:

[a] Greek Hades

This appears to be in contardiction to what Ecc 9 teaches (as per below), that "the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten."

Actually, the more I read this passage, The more I think it is talking about the dead persons affects to the living world. Rather than what they are doing in the afterlife.

But, as per the passage above, the rich man know where he was and was afraid for his brothers, he had knowledge "for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.". And Abraham himself. A dead man, talking to another dead man...you see what I mean?

Do I make sense?